Lowering, Rear track, tracking, and pulling to the left....
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- chris1roll
- Friend of Club 480 Europe
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- Joined: Wed Feb 12, 2003 6:50 pm
- Location: Using LOTS of petrol!
Lowering, Rear track, tracking, and pulling to the left....
Have come up with an explanation why both my, and Edds car pull to the left slightly.
Its all to do with the panhard rod type rear suspension set up.
to refer to my (rough and ready) paint diagram
Now, the panhard rod stops the rear of the car from wobbling about all over the place, but, because of it, in order for the suspension to move up and down, it must also move from side to side.
basically if distance A gets smaller, the angle at Z also does. because the hypotenuse of the triangle cannot get any smaller, the axle has to move to the left.
As it does so,allowed by the flex in the trailing arm bushes, the wheels must also turn slightly, so the front of the wheels are pointing towards the right slightly.
You may notice this in reverse, when you jack the rear wheels both off the ground, the angle Z gets bigger, the axle moves to the right.
Now, for a standard car, volvo obviously set it up so that with an average load, the wheels were pointing straight ahead, and the front tracking can be set in respect of this.
But, for a lowered car, the panhard rod/axle are always in the "compressed suspension" position resulting in the wheels pointing a little off, and the car turning left. In addition to this, if the tracking is done with the car lowered, the lasers pointing of the rear wheels will ain to teh right (looking from rear of car) so the tracking will be set with this error included, resulting in the car crabbing slightly.
My car handles beautifully with the 40mm drop, and it only pulls to the left slightly, so I am going to continue with it, also i can't see any way around it. Just thought it might make mildy interesting reading, and someone might have an idea.
One idea maybe, make the panhard rod shorter, but this would require some fairly accurate measurements and welding.......
Its all to do with the panhard rod type rear suspension set up.
to refer to my (rough and ready) paint diagram
Now, the panhard rod stops the rear of the car from wobbling about all over the place, but, because of it, in order for the suspension to move up and down, it must also move from side to side.
basically if distance A gets smaller, the angle at Z also does. because the hypotenuse of the triangle cannot get any smaller, the axle has to move to the left.
As it does so,allowed by the flex in the trailing arm bushes, the wheels must also turn slightly, so the front of the wheels are pointing towards the right slightly.
You may notice this in reverse, when you jack the rear wheels both off the ground, the angle Z gets bigger, the axle moves to the right.
Now, for a standard car, volvo obviously set it up so that with an average load, the wheels were pointing straight ahead, and the front tracking can be set in respect of this.
But, for a lowered car, the panhard rod/axle are always in the "compressed suspension" position resulting in the wheels pointing a little off, and the car turning left. In addition to this, if the tracking is done with the car lowered, the lasers pointing of the rear wheels will ain to teh right (looking from rear of car) so the tracking will be set with this error included, resulting in the car crabbing slightly.
My car handles beautifully with the 40mm drop, and it only pulls to the left slightly, so I am going to continue with it, also i can't see any way around it. Just thought it might make mildy interesting reading, and someone might have an idea.
One idea maybe, make the panhard rod shorter, but this would require some fairly accurate measurements and welding.......
2001 V70 XC 2.5T
1989 744 GL Auto
1989 744 GL Auto
- Ben Harris
- 480 Is my middle name
- Posts: 1163
- Joined: Wed Apr 30, 2003 5:18 pm
- Location: Cambridge, UK
- Contact:
My lowered 480 pulls to the left, even after I've had it tracked.
My non-lowered 480 also pulls to the left though, but I've never had that tracked, so that might be why.
I'm sure I read somewhere that it was a Volvo "safety feature", so that if you lose concentration, it'll put you into the barrier, rather than the path of oncoming traffic. This could just be a myth though!
Ben.
My non-lowered 480 also pulls to the left though, but I've never had that tracked, so that might be why.
I'm sure I read somewhere that it was a Volvo "safety feature", so that if you lose concentration, it'll put you into the barrier, rather than the path of oncoming traffic. This could just be a myth though!
Ben.
1998-2003 ... 1981 Austin Mini City
2003-2005 ... 1989 Volvo 480 ES (B18E)
2004-2006 ... 1994 Volvo 480 ES (B20F)
2006-2008 ... 1995 Mitsuibshi FTO GPX
2008-2008 ... 1994 Volvo 480 Turbo Auto (with RichMod)
2009-Onwards ... 1991 MK1 Eunos Roadster
2013-Onwards ... 1997 Subaru Impreza Turbo 2000 (Wagon)
2003-2005 ... 1989 Volvo 480 ES (B18E)
2004-2006 ... 1994 Volvo 480 ES (B20F)
2006-2008 ... 1995 Mitsuibshi FTO GPX
2008-2008 ... 1994 Volvo 480 Turbo Auto (with RichMod)
2009-Onwards ... 1991 MK1 Eunos Roadster
2013-Onwards ... 1997 Subaru Impreza Turbo 2000 (Wagon)
- chris1roll
- Friend of Club 480 Europe
- Posts: 3927
- Joined: Wed Feb 12, 2003 6:50 pm
- Location: Using LOTS of petrol!
- Ben Harris
- 480 Is my middle name
- Posts: 1163
- Joined: Wed Apr 30, 2003 5:18 pm
- Location: Cambridge, UK
- Contact:
I think it still pulled to the left, but I can't really remember. I got rid of them as soon as I could!MatBat wrote:@ Ben, when you had your towing springs did the car pull to the right?
Thought of a soloution for this, find a company that will make offset bushes
Ben.
1998-2003 ... 1981 Austin Mini City
2003-2005 ... 1989 Volvo 480 ES (B18E)
2004-2006 ... 1994 Volvo 480 ES (B20F)
2006-2008 ... 1995 Mitsuibshi FTO GPX
2008-2008 ... 1994 Volvo 480 Turbo Auto (with RichMod)
2009-Onwards ... 1991 MK1 Eunos Roadster
2013-Onwards ... 1997 Subaru Impreza Turbo 2000 (Wagon)
2003-2005 ... 1989 Volvo 480 ES (B18E)
2004-2006 ... 1994 Volvo 480 ES (B20F)
2006-2008 ... 1995 Mitsuibshi FTO GPX
2008-2008 ... 1994 Volvo 480 Turbo Auto (with RichMod)
2009-Onwards ... 1991 MK1 Eunos Roadster
2013-Onwards ... 1997 Subaru Impreza Turbo 2000 (Wagon)
- bbf
- 480 Is my middle name
- Posts: 994
- Joined: Tue Dec 23, 2003 10:21 am
- Location: Na soncni strani Alp (SLO)
- Contact:
mine 480 doesn't pull. empty or loaded with people and stuff. and it was seriously crashed - previous owner drunk.. had to move lef front wheel for an inch!
mine 345 pulled like hell! when i bought it it pulled to the left and after buying him brand new dunlops it pulled to the right. the car was never crashed.
mine 345 pulled like hell! when i bought it it pulled to the left and after buying him brand new dunlops it pulled to the right. the car was never crashed.
'98 S40 T4, replacement vehicle, hardcore power
'86 480 ES, RIP :(
'91 480 Turbo, RIP :(
'93 480 2.0, RIP :(
'90 480 Turbo, hailed roof, fighting wounds, 260.000km, daily bolide :)
'81 345 GL cvt, waiting for a new life, 200.000km :)
'82 244 GL 2.4D 250.000km restoration project
[url]http://img13.photobucket.com/albums/v37/bbfbbf/[/url]
'86 480 ES, RIP :(
'91 480 Turbo, RIP :(
'93 480 2.0, RIP :(
'90 480 Turbo, hailed roof, fighting wounds, 260.000km, daily bolide :)
'81 345 GL cvt, waiting for a new life, 200.000km :)
'82 244 GL 2.4D 250.000km restoration project
[url]http://img13.photobucket.com/albums/v37/bbfbbf/[/url]
-
- 480 Is my middle name
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- Contact:
Ahaaaaaaaaa!
What was that pm I sent u the other week?!!!!!
I've had this problem till this weekend!Straight now matey,and 40mm PI drop!
Took my car in after 9 months of not bothering to get it tracked,previously did bother far too often!!!!£££££!!!!!!
The chappie at the garage said the rear flags read 4 one side and 8 the other so it was crabbing.This was the 1st time it had been.He wound both sides at the front until they were spot on with the back.Now it handles like the usual 480 does and is straighter than the complete opposite of Will Young! I like Will! He is,however,a champion Chocolate Speedway Rider! I love the Bourneville Boulevard dont you mate?
I think that with 480s,by the way,that 60-65 around a mid-sized roundabout is about where I start to squirt clay a little! Anyone else?
Captain Persian.
I've had this problem till this weekend!Straight now matey,and 40mm PI drop!
Took my car in after 9 months of not bothering to get it tracked,previously did bother far too often!!!!£££££!!!!!!
The chappie at the garage said the rear flags read 4 one side and 8 the other so it was crabbing.This was the 1st time it had been.He wound both sides at the front until they were spot on with the back.Now it handles like the usual 480 does and is straighter than the complete opposite of Will Young! I like Will! He is,however,a champion Chocolate Speedway Rider! I love the Bourneville Boulevard dont you mate?
I think that with 480s,by the way,that 60-65 around a mid-sized roundabout is about where I start to squirt clay a little! Anyone else?
Captain Persian.
I'm No Longer Here :(
http://www.volvo-480-europe.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=34359&start=20
http://www.volvo-480-europe.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=34359&start=20
- rpruen
- Friend of Club 480 Europe
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- Joined: Wed May 26, 2004 9:09 pm
- Location: Near Bristol (uk)
Re: Ahaaaaaaaaa!
That would be about it.catgroom wrote:I think that with 480s,by the way,that 60-65 around a mid-sized roundabout is about where I start to squirt clay a little! Anyone else?
Richard
Car Status: Squashed :(
Now have 765 GLE 2.8 V6
Now have 765 GLE 2.8 V6
Re: Lowering, Rear track, tracking, and pulling to the left.
If ordinary construction steel is acceptable, I can make you a shorter panhard rod without too much hassle. Shipping would probably cost you more than the material.chris1roll wrote:Have come up with an explanation why both my, and Edds car pull to the left slightly.
My car handles beautifully with the 40mm drop, and it only pulls to the left slightly, so I am going to continue with it, also i can't see any way around it. ..
Finding out the "exact" length wouldn't be too tricky either. A good way would be to get access to the underside of an unlowered car while it's still carrying the (ideal) weight on the wheels, then measure the perpendicular distance between the axle and the panhard rod chassis bracket. If you then know "exactly" how much you car has been lowered some fairly simple trigonometry would tell you how much shorter the new panhard rod needs to be.
Making an adjustable P rod would of course be possible, but would require considerably more fabrication and design work to get the strength right.
- chris1roll
- Friend of Club 480 Europe
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- Joined: Wed Feb 12, 2003 6:50 pm
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Hi, thanks for the offer, but Edd has since made an adjustable panhard rod, (he is an engineer) using a spare rod, and the adjustable section of a strut brace.
It works perfectly, although he's having a bit of trouble setting it up perfectly at the moment though, and has just replaced the rear bushes in an attempt to get the wheels in the right place, since there is no adjustment on the rear axle like there is on the earlier models.
His is much worse than mine....
Chris
It works perfectly, although he's having a bit of trouble setting it up perfectly at the moment though, and has just replaced the rear bushes in an attempt to get the wheels in the right place, since there is no adjustment on the rear axle like there is on the earlier models.
His is much worse than mine....
Chris
2001 V70 XC 2.5T
1989 744 GL Auto
1989 744 GL Auto