Head Gasket Replacement - DIY or NOT?

[Martin Mc]

Hello folks,

Looks like there is water entering the engine system somewhere on my 1.7S, which has been standing for some months now, as I'm getting white smoke at start up and once the engine is up to normal running temp. I suspect head gasket failure (is this common on the Renault lump?) although there are none of the normal signs of this (mayonnaise in oil filler cap / using water / oil in header tank).

My question is, given that I'm not in any rush to get the car back on the road (well spring time perhaps), is the headgasket a job I might realistically tackle myself? Are there any particular issues with the 1.7 unit that mean it is a difficult job, or should it be a simple question of taking time, being methodical and having the right tools to hand?

Any thoughts?

Cheers!

Martin

[brinkie]

I heard exactly the same story (white smoke when cold, no mayonnaise in oil, no oil in water, water level stable) from a girl who is driving a 1.7 S as well. Don't think it's gasket failure, but then again, what is it? You can have the system pressure-tested, if there are leaks this test will reveal it.

A cilinder head revision is, however, a good idea most of the time. You need to find someone who can set valve clearances properly, the rest you can do yourself with a Haynes manual or the Volvo manuals and a lot of elbow grease.
Acquire cheaply (either eBay or suppliers on the Internet) the following:
- cilinder head gasket set (incl. valve stem seals and camshaft seals)
- cilinder bolt set
- cam belt kit
- alternator belt

I think the parts will set you back around 150 quid and optionally you need to have the surface of the cilinder head flattened. Adjustment of the valve clearances is mandatory, however. The rest, removing the belts, removing the head, cleaning/polishing the valves, replacing the seals and putting it all back together again, is indeed what you call a simple question of taking time, being methodical and having the right tools to hand. (including a quality torque wrench and the proper procedure to tighten the head bolts)

[Alan 480]

and note that the cylinder head bolts on mine felt as if they were done up by a gorilla with a six foot scaffolding pole!

maybe just as in with locking or AWFFY tight by design?

[Martin Mc]

Thanks Robert and Alan for your input.

As a stop-gap before steaming ahead with the head gasket replacement (and in light of the fact that the car is off road for the foreseable future) I'm going to try some K-Seal and see if that makes any difference. Has anyone any idea where the best place to add the liquid is, other than perhaps the expansion tank? I'm not confident that the liquid will get the the areas likely to be suffering from gasket failure before the engine / coolant gets up to temperature (and beyond!) if the mixture is added in the header tank.

Any ideas?

Martin

[Alan 480]

maybe remove the bleed valve at back of block (on the heater hose) let some water out then 'inject' back in through bleed?

at least it is then closer to the leak as the expansion tank is not really in the flow

or pour it in at the stat housing hose? again let some out first? (it will empty a bit when you wheech the hose off

PS much easier to try a rad sealer than head removal

[1st480]

Hi,
As it's been standing (or possibly more because it has) and if it's not actually using any water from the cooling system....it may well just be water vapour that has collected in the exhaust pipes as they do seem to collect it. I had a centre pipe rust out from being stood on tarmac(Read dry standing) for a couple of months from the water that was sat in it from last run. Also, there may be some water in the fuel and a little in the oil from being stood.
I'd get some fresh fuel in it, make sure the coolant is at the correct level and keeping an eye on temps and the coolant level give it a good few motorway/country road runs getting it fully upto temp. (It should get somwhere near to 92 deg C before starting to drop as thermostat opens then back upto the mid 80 degs.) See if that doesn't reduce the amount of water vapour out the tail pipe. (Also note that in the colder weather they do seem to kick out a bit more white vapour than newer cars seem to.) I'd also give it a mini service if it has been stood.
If after that you still have a lot of white smoke and want to try the Kseal type fix, you could always empty the cooling system and refill with water and Kseal premixed then run upto temp as per the instructions and either empty into something like a collapse-able camping water bag to keep for further try's if for instance you find a leaking heater matrix/pipe or don't want to leave the excess Kseal in the system and refill with anti-freeze coolant mix or have premixed the antifreeze with the Kseal/water if you're happy to leave it in the system.

Also, for a bit of additional troubleshooting;
Is the smoke thick and bright-ish white or thinner and vapour-y?
Is there a sweet smell to the smoke coming out?
Is there a strong fuel smell to the smoke?
Are there lots of bubbles in the coolant expansion bottle when it's running?
What does the coolant smell of in the expansion bottle?
Have you any chance of getting a sniffer test or compression test done either by a garage or DIY?

Regards,
1st480

[Martin Mc]

Thanks for the advice, 1st480 - much appreciated!

Unfortunately the car is off road and SORN at the moment, with no MOT, so I can't give it a run out to see if that clears the problem.

I've run the car up to temperature, and left it running for 30 minutes today, and that did reduce the white content from the exhaust considerably. I had wondered about condensation in the exhaust baffles / wadding & other gubbins, particularly as the garage it is stored in is a bit wet at times. At the end of the 'test' the car was idling lumpily, with some of the symptoms below showing up - I'll go through them...

Your questions:
* Is the smoke thick and bright-ish white or thinner and vapour-y? It was thick at first, then thinner and now almost 'normal' - I am leaning more towards the damp exhaust idea
* Is there a sweet smell to the smoke coming out? / Is there a strong fuel smell to the smoke? It does smell quite strongly of unburnt fuel
* Are there lots of bubbles in the coolant expansion bottle when it's running? No, the expansion bottle doesn't get warm either - I wonder if the thermostat is goosed?
* What does the coolant smell of in the expansion bottle? Old water and anti-freeze - it is an orange colour
* Have you any chance of getting a sniffer test or compression test done either by a garage or DIY? No, the next time it goes to the garage will be for pre-MOT welding and its MOT - I am kind of hoping that the engine will come good after the K-seal treatment (now in) and a mini service of plugs,HT leads, air filter, oil and filter.

Oh the joys of 480 ownership

[heavend]

Better late than never! But you never know when someone else with a similar question will be searching the forum. I you're a newbie to mechanics I suggest get a Haynes manual and have a read. If it's gobbledegook pass on the job.

I've just done a 1.7 head gasket/frost plug replacement. I've used a full gasket set with all the seals, gaskets that you'll encounter. The good news is that apart from a valve spring compressor and valve seal pliers there's no specialist tools required. I would suggest a 3/8" socket set that features 6 point sockets to avoid rounding off the manifold/exhaust fasteners because they're very likely to be rusty and tight. A can of penetrating fluid would be a good idea as well. On those exhaust fasteners I use a M8 tap and cleaning nut before I reassemble, with a smear of copper anti-seize. Someone may thank me for it - it might be me!

If you're taking the head off, check the frost plugs. There's 4x 10mm and 4x 16mm (5/8") plugs. Do the cam belt etc. as well while you're there, and put some rust killer on the brake booster. All easier with the head off. Detach the exhaust from the down pipe and lift the head and manifolds off complete, it's easier.

Finally, there's no "valve adjustment" - the engine has hydraulic tappets - so I disregard the incorrect comment elsewhere on this thread.

[jifflemon]

Finally, there's no "valve adjustment" - the engine has hydraulic tappets - so I disregard the incorrect comment elsewhere on this thread.

You're both right and wrong. The engine does have hydraulic tappets but there IS valve adjustment to be done. You have to measure the base of the cam lobe and the Tappet bucket shim.if the clearance is out of spec, you need to remove the shim and replace with another the correct thickness to bring it back into tolerance.

[jamescarruthers]

I would recommend NOT to use K-SEAL ever on any car. You can kiss goodbye to heat from your heater matrix for a start and it will find its gungey way in to lots of places that it shouldn't.

Our Renault engine is not known for blowing its cylinder head gasket.


My experience is only with the 1.7 engines but many of those are quite steamy from the exhaust so do not let this be your only guidance. I would suggest you get a proper pressure check if you are worried and not presume the worst and spend your money on unnecessary work. Use the car regularly and monitor the oil and coolant levels if you want to get a better indication without the pressure check.

Bear in mind what your previous poster said about water condensing in places with lack of use.

Also, the engine does have adjustable valve clearances. The adjustment is done by shims. The shims are of varying sizes, you measure and install the right size as required.

Its difficult to have the right shims until you measure. What I did was send my head off to Ivor Searle engine rebuilders and it came back with new valves and the shims adjusted. This wasn't the cheapest option, compared to DIY of course, but it made a lot of sense to me to.

I would not ever buy any 480 that has knowingly had K-seal rubbish put in its cooling system and would advise everyone on here the same, unless they want to be disassembling the coolant sytem for a thorough flush and probably replacing the heater matrix too. If you ever want the car to find a good home on this forum don't put it in!

Cross your fingers and chill, hopefully you're just fretting over nothing and you can turn your attention to other 480 niggles instead!

[Alan 480]

for shims when I skipped an engine I kept the shims, that way I reckoned I might have sufficient to make them correct if I decided to change them.

are they hydraulic? I thought just 'shims' in buckets which CAN be fished out with rocker shaft in place, LARGE screwdriver and correct leverage point

stand to be corrected as the last time I had a rocker cover off was in 2002 ! turn radio up if awffy chattery (engine , not Mrs )

[jamescarruthers]

i don't think they are hydraulic tappets, no.

Not difficult to get in/out, its just measuring and replacing them with the right size that's the issue. I figured the engine rebuild place would have drawers full of them so it would be easy for them

[jpthevolvoman]

To add to this thread - I'm a currently a newbie DIY mechanic and have bought a 480 whose engine has not run in 10 years and is losing oil.. so logically I plan to replace all the rubber seals and gaskets in the engine. I have found the following head gasket set - https://www.partsforvolvosonline.com/pr ... 9b52340369

Now I'm wondering whether this is all the gaskets and seals that I will need to replace or whether there are more? I won't be cheaping out on head bolts.

In addition to this I was planning to do timing belt, water pump and distributer cap and ignition leads. Is there anything else that I should replace as well? Going to take engine out to do this job so just want to make sure I don't miss anything whilst its out.

TIA

[dcwalker]

In terms of what to do while the engine is out, I'd say everything possible! How is the clutch while you're at it?

As for the gasket set, the obvious question to ask is which engine do you have? PFS refer to a 1.8 - this was only on the 440/460. Yet they refer to B18E - which is the early 1.7 in the 480. The turbo is also a 1.7 not 1.8. The seals may not be common to all - I don't know...

David

[jifflemon]

To add to this thread - I'm a currently a newbie DIY mechanic and have bought a 480 whose engine has not run in 10 years and is losing oil.. so logically I plan to replace all the rubber seals and gaskets in the engine. I have found the following head gasket set - https://www.partsforvolvosonline.com/pr ... 9b52340369

Now I'm wondering whether this is all the gaskets and seals that I will need to replace or whether there are more? I won't be cheaping out on head bolts.

In addition to this I was planning to do timing belt, water pump and distributer cap and ignition leads. Is there anything else that I should replace as well? Going to take engine out to do this job so just want to make sure I don't miss anything whilst its out.

TIA

Well, first of all, welcome to the club! What you've not told us, is what variant of 480 you've got?

I can't see a half manifold gasket (the one that sits halfway between the upper and lower sections), so I'd not be ordering anything just yet.

Jobs to do whilst the engine is out?
Clutch is an obvious one. Gearbox selector input seals if it's a manual, along with gearbox oil. Starter motor if it's a turbo. Sump gasket as well as a sump tidyup - they tend to lead a hard life!.
I'd have the valve seats recut, which will also mean shim adjustment.
Check the subframe for rot, clean and protect it.
Check the condition of the engine mounts.

[jpthevolvoman]

Thanks both for the replies and the welcome!

I believe I have the B18E N/A, engine code on VIN is 14 and my car was registered Feb 89. It has the old-style wingmirrors on. I'm guessing PFS have just made a typo in their description, I noticed that they had on another part, I would contact them to check before ordering. Not sure if there's anywhere else to look as well? Sites like Autodoc seem quite sketchy to me, would prefer a supplier who knows about these cars that I can actually pick up the phone and speak to, or at least send an email too.

The sump is currently leaking out oil so I will definitely need to try to source one of those. I do have a NOS Volvo camshaft seal that came with my car (Pt# 3344397), I believe one of these is in that set I linked as well? I know NOS Volvo seals would be my best for a perfect fit.. any pointers on trying to source these or would I be attempting to get onboard a sunken ship?

I find it funny how for my 140 parts are much more easier to find than for these pesky but awesome 480s...

I plan to check the clutch which I think should be okay, I did test the bite which seemed all good, but wasn't wanting to drive it at all so I didn't damage the engine... plus the throttle was sticking due to rust. The odometer seems to still work and has just 13k on the clock with some history from 2005 to 2010 backing this (which is when she was left to collect dust in a barn), but sure about the previous 15yrs though.. aparently got more paperwork to come shortly so hopefully this will give more insight.

As the car has (hopefully) not covered many miles, do I need to have the valve seats cut and shim adjusted? If I should still get it done - would both of these things need to be done at a machine shop and what sort of cost should I roughly expect? £200ish?

Engine mounts, sub frame... added to list.

[dragonflyjewels]

Sumps should still be available from Renault