Gearbox Ratio/LSD?

robin_xr4i · Post by **robin_xr4i** » Tue Mar 21, 2006 11:55 am

I am having my clutch replaced soon and while the box is out i was thinking of swapping it if anyone knows of a better gear box for turbo owners.

Possibly a Diesel gearbox from diesel 440/renault 19 poss (i.e. longer 1 and 2 cogs) that would fit?

Plus is there a LSD equiped box that renault produced as standard? and would this fit?

obviously you can get gear sets from quaife etc but thats v.expensive!

I remember rich saying that a 6 speed item from a new megane might fit but the ratios where way to short and closely grouped for the turbo, might be fun on a 2.0 though

guitarcarfanatic · Post by **guitarcarfanatic** » Tue Mar 21, 2006 12:09 pm

You should already have the later, better turbo gearbox. It should be fine for about 250bhp(almost certain rich still has this one on his turbo).

martinholmesuk · Post by **martinholmesuk** » Tue Mar 21, 2006 12:25 pm

His on number 2 or 3 of M59 gearbox so they will die on 250bhp + shed loads of torque. It's also about the clutch being able to grip for the power.

pressure is very importiant otherwise it will slip. I don't think you have gearbox braking on the standard mod but slipping with be a prob.

Ask Haz about stopping clutch slip.

VanDerGraaf · Post by **VanDerGraaf** » Tue Mar 21, 2006 1:43 pm

Yeah Robin, there must be a stronger box from a Renault (6 speed?) that could be fitted.
I don't think the M59 is really up to 250bhp. 170 yes, 250 no.

So the search is on if you want silly amounts of power!

Rohan

robin_xr4i · Post by **robin_xr4i** » Tue Mar 21, 2006 2:24 pm

When i spoke to rich a couple of months ago he said that the standard box can cope with 250+ bhp (just about).

He said that his box has standard gears with uprated bearings, and he was running approx 250bhp at the wheels (so about 280 at the flywheel).

He said that the clutch he was using was a hybrid jobbie using a laguna and 480 parts, but that still needed replacing on a regular basis but could handle the power without shitting its self straight away.

I quizzed him for about an 1 hour on various points of his car, i was a bit of a bore but great guy

My clutch is slipping pretty bad now, when the boost really comes in at 4k the needle shoots up to 6k but the car still doing the same speed!

Matthew Brennan · Post by **Matthew Brennan** » Tue Mar 21, 2006 4:16 pm

LSD always made me drive slower so i'm not sure its a good thing?

crispy-d · Post by **crispy-d** » Tue Mar 21, 2006 5:59 pm

The standard gearbox is (apparently) theoretically able to cope with ~220bhp before becoming unreliable. I would like a stronger gearbox, but I didn't know the ratios were different?!

That's a pain, or are they easy to change?

The Laguna clutch plate (for the newer engines) can cope with the extra torque, just wear a little quicker. (Or is it a lot quicker?) Oh yes, and does JohnTurbo still do those modified engine mounts? Looks like the supermod requires quite a bit of preparation!!

robin_xr4i · Post by **robin_xr4i** » Tue Mar 21, 2006 7:08 pm

crispy-d wrote: That's a pain, or are they easy to change?

Just swap the whole box

vins480t · Post by **vins480t** » Fri Apr 07, 2006 11:09 am

this is a pic of my T3 engine.
ive changed the whole enginemount back to the old type and also added 2 more shocks to withstand the torque.
AND my box is a Groupe A box i was so lucky to find on an old ES once.
it copes with power much better but the ratios are smaller then on a M59 box.
in 5th @ 6250 its only doing 195 km.
but at my last try its was there in 11,6 sec going from 1 to 5 at 1.8 bar.

MrE · Post by **MrE** » Fri Apr 07, 2006 12:44 pm

As Richard still isn't back on line i will try and tell you what he's told me and what we've found. The 6 speed box off a megane, i believe, is longer than the 480 box and if you look at the left front member there ain't alot of room with the standard box. Therefore to fit the larger box you'd need to some serious structural alterations....

As for the standard box, Rich has found some uprated bearings for sensible money. We intend to weld some extra bracing in the Gearbox housing to prevent it failing under the torque. Hopefully then capable of anything up around 300 bhp. The cogs are more than capable of that power.

An LSD is a possibility, a very expensive one at that! Rich fas found one that will fit the box but i'm not sure i can afford one any time soon.

The clutch Rich and i are running is a volvo renault hybrid. A clio sport friction disc and volvo pressure plate. Should last for a good time.

Hope that helps...
Edd

crispy-d · Post by **crispy-d** » Sat Apr 08, 2006 12:38 am

MrE, don't suppose you know what kind of torque the standard box would cope with if just the bearings were uprated would you?

I also just wondered how Richard used a Clio clutch plate? His car has the later engine, doesn't it? I thought the later engines had to have the Laguna clutch plate, or at least that's what he told me to get?!

Vins480t , that engine is looking very smart. I suppose it's a little easier to mess about with it when it's out of the car! Wish I had the guts to do it. Or is that a spare engine? Just wondered what having a T3 is like, and also exactly what turbo you are using. Rich told me that a 740 diesel T3 works, but I haven't spoken to anyone directly about what they're like. Is the lag really that much?

Crispin

MrE · Post by **MrE** » Sat Apr 08, 2006 6:40 am

I'm not sure exactly what torque there'd be able to cope with. I believe they'd make the gearbox reliable with the 220 Bhp Rich mod if thats any help. As for the clutch i'm not totally sure but i'd imagin the laguna and clio sport friction disc are probably the same. (i.e the fibre bit, the metal part with the spring being the Volvo pressure plate) A lot of things are very similar between these cars. When me and Rich rebuilt the bottom end of our engines, we discovered the main and big end bearings are the same as the renault diesel engine, the block is based on and the later 16v clio petrol. So it seems likely that other components are very similar.
Edd

chris1roll · Post by **chris1roll** » Sat Apr 08, 2006 6:36 pm

I know you said you weren't planning on doing any work at work today, but surfing the net after just 10 minutes!

Milosz_480 · Post by **Milosz_480** » Sat Apr 08, 2006 6:42 pm

vins480t wrote: ive changed the whole enginemount back to the old type and also added 2 more shocks to withstand the torque.
AND my box is a Groupe A box i was so lucky to find on an old ES once.
it copes with power much better but the ratios are smaller then on a M59 box.
in 5th @ 6250 its only doing 195 km.
but at my last try its was there in 11,6 sec going from 1 to 5 at 1.8 bar.

What??? From 0 to 195 in 11,6sec?

BTW. how to recognise A group gearbox?