Volvo 480 Club Europe

Hi there ladies and gents,

I need help with my 1992 volvo 460 turbo automatic.

I tried to take it for an MOT today, I allowed it to warm up on the drive and then under her own steam she rolled about 1/2 a mile.

Acceleration was very lazy and she eventually just came to a stop, the engine revved freely as though the clutch would be slipping if she was a manual, but no go left in her.

She popped a heater matrix hose when this happened...

She now has no forward drive full stop but a very good reverse, park works as well as neutral.

I would like help diagnosing this problem and taking through the automatic gearbox, as I know nothing about it.

I have a post on Facebook, apparently the fluid is high on the dipstick, it is red and not very viscous...

Sadly I have no specific 400 auto experience, but this is my generic auto knowledge.

If you have a good reverse just like normal, then it suggests the fluid level, torque convertor and diff side of things are all good.

Auto dipsticks sometimes have a checking method - many with the engine running. Find your checking procedure in the owners manual. If you ignore your checking method then it can appear high.

Given that reverse is fine, the first thing i'd check is that the selector lever, cable and any gearbox mounted actuation lever is doing the full P-R-N-D-2-1 sweep. If it's only doing half a sweep, then all you'll get is P-R-N.

The lever on the box is sometimes on splines with a nut. The nut loosens and the lever slips on the spines.

I must admit, if you travelled 1/2 mile and it felt like a slipping clutch then a slipping brake band has exactly the same symptoms. Brake bands grab the epicyclics which is what achieves the different ratio's. This is noticeable in an oil drain if the oil is historic. It will smell burnt and the oil will contain debris from the destroyed band.

ATF / Dexron II is red and has a lighter viscosity than engine oil - so this is perfectly normal.

I can’t help much other than saying that when this happened to my 480 many years ago it was the death of the box. In the end, to move at a snails pace to safety I had to bounce the poor engine off the rev limiter. I had to get the box overhauled— I used JT Automatics in Kent. It was quite a pricey job!

However, I know that a 480 member, who isn’t on here, that had their auto box overhauled at Suffolk Transmissions in Haverhill and it was much cheaper. I heard it was about £500 for the overhaul and £150 for the labour. I was actually astonished at this price as I was well in to 4-figures over a decade ago!

(Fingers crossed, because fluid remaining red is a GOOD sign) Maybe there is something you can do before you get to the overhaul stage? As Jay-Kay-Em says, make sure you have checked the fluid level correctly. It must be hot, engine running and having just gone through all the selections on the stick. The dipstick has a cold side (for only rough measurement) and a hot side (for final fine tuning of the level of you are filling with fresh cold oil).

You mentioned that a heater hose blew. This is unusual. Could the tiny little oil/coolant cooler (heat exchanger) be dead as well other troubles internally?

The automatic transmission fluid level check is detailed in your owner’s manual. If you don’t have a manual, I’m sure one of us can post up the process from a 480 one which will be identical.

Thanks for the replies guys!!

I don't have an owners manual, I do have a Haynes book of lies (purple edition) is the procedure in there?

I am just hoping it will be something silly, can't afford anything more than a tub of fluid right now lol

There's a heat exchanger? I wonder if my box is filling up with coolant, I have just got deionised water in there at the moment for testing purposes, once I have more confidence in the car on short runs I will change to coolant.

Are there any mods for the heat exchanger on these or any mods at all that will help with the life of the box? I believe ray-le-otter has a robu mod on her...

Although this is in Dutch you will get the idea of the process hopefully from page 6.16 & 6.17 (106 & 107) of this download from this club
http://volvo480.myds.me/v480eu/download ... _07_93.pdf

The heat exchanger is just a small “sandwich” type, like that behind the engine oil filter. Sadly it’s not an external type that you can use as a neat way to pump fluid out of the box for oil flushing. This is because it is attached and fed with a Banjo Bolt rather than having its own auction & return ports.

As a routine matter (every few years with light use) or with any auto box troubles where the last flush is unknown, I would always recommend three quick flushes with a little drive in between to try to dilute the oil that you can’t drain without having the torque converter out.

I’d recommend running the oil that you propose to buy past the forum first as many oils claim a lot of compatibility that you don’t need or want.

would be good if you could post that pic of your dipstick on here, im sure its way to high but not so sure that would stop the box from working

Anadinolin wrote: ↑

Mon Mar 15, 2021 9:52 pm

I wonder if my box is filling up with coolant

Unlikely as:

a) your reverse gear would be just as compromised as any other gear
b) the oil on your dipstick wouldn't be red; it would be banana milkshake.

Anadinolin wrote: ↑

Mon Mar 15, 2021 9:52 pm

I have just got deionised water in there at the moment for testing purposes

I did this once years ago as I had ran out of anti-freeze that weekend, but needed it running for work on Monday. I was lazy and did about 3 weeks on pure water. When I finally drained & filled with anti-freeze, I was absolutely horrified at the amount of corrosion I had caused to the steel pipes in and around the oil cooler. Make sure neat water is just for very short periods (basically don't be as lazy as I was and leave it in there thinking ahhh it ain't gonna freeze) as anti-freeze is more than about freezing!

https://photos.app.goo.gl/7AaEBPKb8aVCUpM19

Here is the photo, hopefully it shares ok...

If that’s from a hot, engine running and correctly prepared box then it isn’t as majorly overfilled as you’d think from that picture as that is the lower COLD side of the dipstick. The other side is for 90 deg. C and the minimum mark of HOT is roughly at the maximum mark of the COLD side.



If it were me, I’d be putting a syringe and some flexible tube down the hole when it is hot to get the level correct. I expect you should have the engine off for adjusting the level, in case the tube gets eaten up and then double check your work with it hot and running before seeing if you are lucky enough to have drive restored.

Hi guys, thanks for the replies!!

I will hopefully do this either tomorrow or later in the week weather dependant, I need a break from this car lol.

Also is there any vaccume lines that are supposed to be attached to the gearbox, does anyone know? TIA

I have corrected the level while the car is hot. (Waited for cooling fan to kick in! And digital display says 102degC before turning off)

Started her up and....no drive still. Linkages look OK.

Any other avenues to explore like a complete fluid change? See if I can rebuild the valve block? Want to do this on a budget

Been working overdrive in my brain and wondered if fitting a different gearbox would work? These are ZF 4HP14Q gearboxes correct? Could I get another 4HP Q type? Maybe the 18 or 22? And get an overhaul pack for it? Can't get any bits for the 4HP14!!

I know where there's an autobox going cheap

jifflemon wrote: ↑

Wed Mar 17, 2021 2:29 pm

I know where there's an autobox going cheap

Awesome, well not so given the circumstances

What is the going rate, what would you like for it? It might be that I'll have to hold off for a month or 2 until I get back on my feet, iv lost my job now and funds are dried up while trying to find work. I'm doing a minimum wage zero hours agency contract and only getting approx 25 hours a week so far...

If you can't afford it do you mind if we jump in and take it. Ours has started playing up between 2nd and 3rd and can't decide which gear it should be in

440turboNat wrote: ↑

Fri Mar 19, 2021 7:33 pm

If you can't afford it do you mind if we jump in and take it. Ours has started playing up between 2nd and 3rd and can't decide which gear it should be in

I don't mind at all rather it get used than sitting waiting for me to round up the money for it

Thank you

I've been talking with another member about autoboxes and was reading the Volvo green book. I think it is very odd that you have an excess of oil in the gearbox and this can only really be from the cooler leaking coolant in to the box. If the oil had been really high from when it was last serviced, apparantly it would be obvious all along as the shifts would be quite harsh, as would the selection of D or R. The difference between Max. and Min. is only 0.3L so you will notice it in the gearbox way before you notice 300ml of coolant going missing.

I wonder if you could disconnect the collant hoses to the gearbox cooler and bridge them together, taking it out of the equation? Then observe if gearbox oil comes out of the two coolant ports. If it doesn't come out at idle, maybe a quick rev., if not you could risk a very quick drive with little plastic bags tie-wrapped over the ports to see if aything comes out?

If this hasn't destroyed your box internally (and Volvo in their books imply you can recover from this by changing the fluid and replacing the cooler) you may be lucky. Is the fluid definitely red and not milky? Maybe drop your oil and have a proper look in a transparent container. You will need two P/N: 957173 aluminium seals from Volvo to finish the job off after taking off the two drain plugs (still available I'm told).

It has been a long time since I've had an automatic 480 but I don't think you can drop the bottom sump pan off the car to get in and change the internal strainer/filter to do a more substantial oil change, or replace the valvo body you mentioned as the subframe is in the way. But if you prove the cooler has contaminated the oil with the above test, maybe a new cooler and three quick oil changes with a drive inbetween each would bring you back to life?

A new cooler was difficult to source many years ago when I got a NOS one, but as this ZF 4HP14 box is used on loads of cars I'm sure you will get one from somewhere (for example jpat.co.uk list this box and have the cooler listed in their parts catalogue https://jpat.co.uk/uploads/1/0/3/5/1035 ... _4hp18.pdf)

Oh and to you two 440/460 owners debating using a 2.0 480 autobox. This would work but bear in mind that the 480 has an electronic speedo output. If your 440/460 have Info Centres then this probably means you have the electronic speedometer and this wont be a problem. If you have cable driven speedos then you will loose the speedometer.

Also I've been reading the parts catalogue, there are different part number gearboxes between 2.0, turbo and N/A engines. The 2.0 and Turbo share a torque converter, where as the 1.7 N/A has a different one. This sounds encouraging as maybe it is uprated for the extra power and torque?

Just bear this in mind before you jump in! Hopefully the difference (apart from the torque converters which sound important if they have been upgraded for turbo and 2.0) is just shift points and final drive ratios and the car will drive similiarly to what you are used to.

Anadinolin wrote: ↑

Wed Mar 17, 2021 2:01 pm

These are ZF 4HP14Q gearboxes correct?

Correct although I don;t know about the Q, thats a new one one me!

Anadinolin wrote: ↑

Wed Mar 17, 2021 2:01 pm

Could I get another 4HP Q type? Maybe the 18 or 22? And get an overhaul pack for it? Can't get any bits for the 4HP14!!

The 18 and 22 are very different and meant for bigger cars. I'm no expert but hearing that the differential and the transmission on the 18 do not even share the same oil makes me think that they are completely different and wont be fitting in to a little 400 series.

https://www.jpat.co.uk/ list parts for the ZF 4HP14 but you'll need to let them know you want parts for a Volvo as they seem to focus on Peugeots and Audis in their listing. The majority will be similar but the internals may differ slightly to meet the specific application on each car.

JT Automatics in Kent overhualed my autobox many many years ago; Suffolk Transmissions refurbished a 480 box recently. Maybe they do parts once you work out what you need?

Other than oil changes and cooler change, the insides of the autobox seem terrifying!

I didn't know there was another gearbox for the 2.0? Might be worth investigating indeed, someone else mentioned that all renault gearboxes should fit, but I think that's far fetched and probably a lot of effort but worth investigating once funds allow if a gearbox could be sourced that would take the extra power...my 460 has the info centre and the classical not working electrical speedo.

I dropped the fluid in the automatic today, well I'll let the videos do the talking:
https://youtu.be/wlpfobMjrXc
https://youtu.be/ULUVJkEAyOA
https://youtu.be/IdZsOYOO-5M