Gear linkage / leakage
Moderators: jifflemon, coyote1980, Rachel
Gear linkage / leakage
Daft question, when at lamda sensor today found i had a 'fair amount' of gear oil in the plastic catch tray, ie it was lipping full
the seal on the LHS drive shaft is weeping a little but didn't think it was that bad! the corrugations are dry and only a small amount of oil/dampness on top of sub-frame, nothing inside. I suspect it got damged at a clutch change?
I have cleaned up the whole of gearbox so will see if this betrays the source even the area aroundthe LHS bellows gearbox cover doesn't seem wet around the bolts either.
I wonder if the linkage has any sort of seal where it passes up into the gearbox? HBOL doesn't really show anything as I guess gearboxes either work or don't...
I don't mind topping up engine oil as it is designed to be replaced, but gear oil is a real PITA with the air con tank in the way, and topped up to the level of the fill plug.. TBH I can't recall if the front was on the ramps when I topped it up, i doubt it as was reversed into the garage so been level at that time.
the seal on the LHS drive shaft is weeping a little but didn't think it was that bad! the corrugations are dry and only a small amount of oil/dampness on top of sub-frame, nothing inside. I suspect it got damged at a clutch change?
I have cleaned up the whole of gearbox so will see if this betrays the source even the area aroundthe LHS bellows gearbox cover doesn't seem wet around the bolts either.
I wonder if the linkage has any sort of seal where it passes up into the gearbox? HBOL doesn't really show anything as I guess gearboxes either work or don't...
I don't mind topping up engine oil as it is designed to be replaced, but gear oil is a real PITA with the air con tank in the way, and topped up to the level of the fill plug.. TBH I can't recall if the front was on the ramps when I topped it up, i doubt it as was reversed into the garage so been level at that time.
Alan
480 ES 2litre 'Celebration' ? , C30 1.8ES, SS1
480 ES 2litre 'Celebration' ? , C30 1.8ES, SS1
Re: Gear linkage / leakage
They're known for leaking from the seal in the linkage.
https://www.amazon.co.uk/febi-bilstein- ... 38&sr=8-22
https://www.amazon.co.uk/febi-bilstein- ... 38&sr=8-22
Re: Gear linkage / leakage
thanks fro swift reply, looks like next on the 'to-do' list, is it feasible without getting drenched , probably notjifflemon wrote: ↑Sat Jan 23, 2021 11:08 pmThey're known for leaking from the seal in the linkage.
https://www.amazon.co.uk/febi-bilstein- ... 38&sr=8-22
Alan
480 ES 2litre 'Celebration' ? , C30 1.8ES, SS1
480 ES 2litre 'Celebration' ? , C30 1.8ES, SS1
Re: Gearbox leakage not at linkage
well did some cleaning of the 'offending area'Alan 480 wrote: ↑Sun Jan 24, 2021 11:45 amthanks for swift reply, looks like next on the 'to-do' list, is it feasible without getting drenched , probably notjifflemon wrote: ↑Sat Jan 23, 2021 11:08 pmThey're known for leaking from the seal in the linkage.
https://www.amazon.co.uk/febi-bilstein- ... 38&sr=8-22
nope it is NOT coming from the linkage and for info I looked at the part linked to above and it is a cunning design that allows replacement WITHOUT draing the oil!! also found some videos for anybody else.
update
The oil seems to be coming from the area where the large 'bellows' / 'gaiter' meets the gearbox casting.
So cleaned it all down and left it over night, more oil appeared so more wiping and stuffed some tissue into the edges of the steel rim to see if coming from front area or rear area, checked the next day, both bits dry!!!!
call it a no score draw?
so car back in use and will check again, added 50-100ml whilst under the car.
update 2
bu88er, more oil today after about 15miles, deffo coming from the area where the bellows meets the gearbox, and there is a dribble at the drive sahft seal. I reckon when the clutch was changed they cocked it up (I think I've seen receipt for a clutch?) maybe not but a comment in Oct 1999 mentions 'inner drive seal leaking' at 32000miles...
so rather than pull the whole shaft thos week I've tried a section of 'o' ring pressed into the small gap between the casting and the steel holder, not ideal but if it slows the leak to a dribble then I count it as a small win. I don't like an oil leak especially a gearbox, engine is 'OK' as it's meant to be changed and in marine circles not unusual to drain some and top-up 'on the run' as can't shut the engine down crossing the pacific?
Alan
480 ES 2litre 'Celebration' ? , C30 1.8ES, SS1
480 ES 2litre 'Celebration' ? , C30 1.8ES, SS1
Re: Gear box / drive shaft linkage / leakage
Any suggestions as to best place to buy the 'bellows' for the inner end of left drive shaft?
I still have oil dribbling from the shaft and cant see where the lip seal is fitted? I assume the lip runs 'inboard' of the bearing?
there is a wee bit of a wiggle on the bearing/rubber etc.
does the inner tripod easily pull off, (after circlip removed) and how does the bellows go back over the bearing/shaft?
any photos are welcome
I still have oil dribbling from the shaft and cant see where the lip seal is fitted? I assume the lip runs 'inboard' of the bearing?
there is a wee bit of a wiggle on the bearing/rubber etc.
does the inner tripod easily pull off, (after circlip removed) and how does the bellows go back over the bearing/shaft?
any photos are welcome
Alan
480 ES 2litre 'Celebration' ? , C30 1.8ES, SS1
480 ES 2litre 'Celebration' ? , C30 1.8ES, SS1
Re: Gear linkage / leakage
The boot is easily obtained from evil bay.
However....
However....
Absolutely not! Job for a press I'm afraid! (maybe you could improvise with a vice and drifts, but I had a press so used it.
Re: Gear linkage / leakage
OK, that's decided that then!!
I'll remove the whole thing, clean it all up and see if I can get it sitting 'better' against the housing
It can't do much harm and we have some nice long thin 'o' rings at work to trap under and (try) make a better seal.
The leakage at shaft is less than the inboard end and when apart on the bench I'll see if something can be 'improvised'
Alan
480 ES 2litre 'Celebration' ? , C30 1.8ES, SS1
480 ES 2litre 'Celebration' ? , C30 1.8ES, SS1
- Jay-Kay-Em
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Re: Gear linkage / leakage
Hi Alan,
Sorry to hear about your oil leakage woes.
The problem with using a press pulling the tripode is you have 3ft of shaft to accommodate downwards - no good for my bench press. You need a tower press with legs.
I have used a three-leg puller in the past, but BOY it's tight.
The zip tie is just a second pair of hands getting things it started. It's not load bearing. The shaft does have a nice divot in the end for the puller spike.
Have you put the three-bolt metal retention ring on a known flat surface and checked for runout.... even the slightest distortion will mean an uneven clamping force on the boot to gearbox. Is it even the correct ring? There are many Renault versions of this design.
Nothing wrong with a delicate smear of RTV
Sorry to hear about your oil leakage woes.
The problem with using a press pulling the tripode is you have 3ft of shaft to accommodate downwards - no good for my bench press. You need a tower press with legs.
I have used a three-leg puller in the past, but BOY it's tight.
The zip tie is just a second pair of hands getting things it started. It's not load bearing. The shaft does have a nice divot in the end for the puller spike.
Have you put the three-bolt metal retention ring on a known flat surface and checked for runout.... even the slightest distortion will mean an uneven clamping force on the boot to gearbox. Is it even the correct ring? There are many Renault versions of this design.
Nothing wrong with a delicate smear of RTV
Jay-Kay-Em
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Re: Gear linkage / leakage
Thanks for the photo, paints a thousand words, I think that the seal might have been nipped by ham fisted revious repair shopJay-Kay-Em wrote: ↑Sun Nov 13, 2022 5:02 pmHi Alan,
Sorry to hear about your oil leakage woes.
The problem with using a press pulling the tripode is you have 3ft of shaft to accommodate downwards - no good for my bench press. You need a tower press with legs.
I have used a three-leg puller in the past, but BOY it's tight.
The zip tie is just a second pair of hands getting things it started. It's not load bearing. The shaft does have a nice divot in the end for the puller spike.
Have you put the three-bolt metal retention ring on a known flat surface and checked for runout.... even the slightest distortion will mean an uneven clamping force on the boot to gearbox. Is it even the correct ring? There are many Renault versions of this design.
Nothing wrong with a delicate smear of RTV
not sure how flat it is, maybe they have been overzealous and bent it?
and yes RTV might work and/or after removing the 'piston' o-ring add a few layers of PTFE tape to marginally increase the diameter and re-fit the o-ring and it will hold it all in place until can push back into gear-box.
it might be that there isn't any o-ring? certainly the leakage rate is less since I added one / tucked under the steel lip
do you hav eany more photos of teh seal area and the outer 'lip seal'?
Alan
480 ES 2litre 'Celebration' ? , C30 1.8ES, SS1
480 ES 2litre 'Celebration' ? , C30 1.8ES, SS1
Re: Gear linkage / leakage
Not sure if this is entirely relevant, as it sounds as though your leak is where boot meets diff, but I had an ongoing, infuriating, gear oil leak from this driveshaft which started at around 150,000 miles. I changed the boot which seemed to help for a bit, but the issue was general wear on the shaft which meant that the bearing and/or seal at the narrow end of the boot had failed. It didn't leak much/at all when the car was stationary, but as soon as it got moving and the oil got hot it would leak. In the end I had to replace the driveshaft with an SKF part, but no worries since then and I'm now on 197,000 miles Only engine oil leaks lol.
If your car is the 2.0 then I think you can still get an SKF part, although it's not cheap: https://www.autodoc.co.uk/skf/14938 - but at least it's available! Nothing out there for the 1.7 n/a as far as I can see...
Good luck, hopefully it's just the boot seal. As you say, gear oil leak is a real pain - plus it stinks!
If your car is the 2.0 then I think you can still get an SKF part, although it's not cheap: https://www.autodoc.co.uk/skf/14938 - but at least it's available! Nothing out there for the 1.7 n/a as far as I can see...
Good luck, hopefully it's just the boot seal. As you say, gear oil leak is a real pain - plus it stinks!
1992 Paris Blue 480 ES
Re: Gear linkage / leakage
well I can cope with the 'dribble' from the shaft (I think)
I don't mind engine oil leaks as it is a 'consumable'
Alan
480 ES 2litre 'Celebration' ? , C30 1.8ES, SS1
480 ES 2litre 'Celebration' ? , C30 1.8ES, SS1
Re: Gear linkage / leakage
You'd have difficulty bending the seal....Alan 480 wrote: ↑Mon Nov 14, 2022 4:37 pm
Thanks for the photo, paints a thousand words, I think that the seal might have been nipped by ham fisted revious repair shop
not sure how flat it is, maybe they have been overzealous and bent it?
and yes RTV might work and/or after removing the 'piston' o-ring add a few layers of PTFE tape to marginally increase the diameter and re-fit the o-ring and it will hold it all in place until can push back into gear-box.
it might be that there isn't any o-ring? certainly the leakage rate is less since I added one / tucked under the steel lip
do you have any more photos of teh seal area and the outer 'lip seal'?
The Bottom seal is thick and pressed flat by that metal retainer, which seals against the side of the box.
Re: Gear linkage / leakage
Jeff
good man for photos
how the heck can that let oil leak out, I thought it was a 'piston fit' into the housing, not a 'face seal'
I'm pretty sure the three bolts are tight!
I wonder if that is the lip seal on the shaft is missing on mine as I can see a metal section, (i think it's metal) and it rotates WITH the shaft
good man for photos
how the heck can that let oil leak out, I thought it was a 'piston fit' into the housing, not a 'face seal'
I'm pretty sure the three bolts are tight!
I wonder if that is the lip seal on the shaft is missing on mine as I can see a metal section, (i think it's metal) and it rotates WITH the shaft
Alan
480 ES 2litre 'Celebration' ? , C30 1.8ES, SS1
480 ES 2litre 'Celebration' ? , C30 1.8ES, SS1
Re: Gear linkage / leakage
will do more photos tomorrow but there's a roller bearing that's pressed onto the shaft that the outer end of the boot clamps onto.
EDIT: here's the bearing
EDIT: here's the bearing
Re: Gear linkage / leakage
Thanks
I'll have another look but from memory it doesn't look as if there is any chamfered section, just square to the drive shaft.
I'll maybe try and get a photo from above to save putting back on ramps
also the boot can 'wobble' around on the shaft/bearing which i didn't think felt 'correct'
I'll have another look but from memory it doesn't look as if there is any chamfered section, just square to the drive shaft.
I'll maybe try and get a photo from above to save putting back on ramps
also the boot can 'wobble' around on the shaft/bearing which i didn't think felt 'correct'
Alan
480 ES 2litre 'Celebration' ? , C30 1.8ES, SS1
480 ES 2litre 'Celebration' ? , C30 1.8ES, SS1
Re: Gear linkage / leakage
From memory i'd say my bearing didn't look exactly like that either - but basically this was the part that had failed and was causing the leak on my car. Alan, the 'wobble' you describe sounds familiar, and wear on that bearing seemed to be the root cause of the issue. If I recall correctly the oil would dribble out at this point and pool on the wishbone, gradually destroying my bushes
1992 Paris Blue 480 ES
Re: Gear linkage / leakage
I'd accept the dribble, it means that the sub-frame won't rust
Alan
480 ES 2litre 'Celebration' ? , C30 1.8ES, SS1
480 ES 2litre 'Celebration' ? , C30 1.8ES, SS1
Re: Gear linkage / leakage
small update
N/S spring went 'ping' whilst sitting on the drive so when changing the spring decided to investigate the drive shaft inboard end.
why it would fail standing still (at least I knew I had a broken spring
first issue was that I'd stripped the whole suspension and meant had to be re-assembled to slacken the drive nut
second issue was some eeejit had applied lots of 'stud-lock' of the pink rock hard stuff onto the splines good job none on the thread!!
third issue was the 'larger than expected' volume of gear oil into my small container , I thought a few pints...
any way the face of the inner bellows had a slight ridge around the 'piston' where it had not been pushed cleanly into the housing on previous clutch change? (I assume changed as odd bolts)
the face looked clean otherwise and had been sufficient pressure to make the face of seal 'square', (not standing at angle as Jeff's photo) and I forgot to take photos, but the overall thickness of the seal plus steel was 'as near as damn it' same as recess, so no real pressure applied? I found a Renault logo , but no part number
much thinking and as was Friday evening decided nowt lost so added thin disc between the steel & seal to apply a 'thochty' extra squeeze.
also during refitting I held drive shaft level with a support from strut opening and pushed seal into place evenly before added steel.
seems 'dry' inititially, but time will tell.
N/S spring went 'ping' whilst sitting on the drive so when changing the spring decided to investigate the drive shaft inboard end.
why it would fail standing still (at least I knew I had a broken spring
first issue was that I'd stripped the whole suspension and meant had to be re-assembled to slacken the drive nut
second issue was some eeejit had applied lots of 'stud-lock' of the pink rock hard stuff onto the splines good job none on the thread!!
third issue was the 'larger than expected' volume of gear oil into my small container , I thought a few pints...
any way the face of the inner bellows had a slight ridge around the 'piston' where it had not been pushed cleanly into the housing on previous clutch change? (I assume changed as odd bolts)
the face looked clean otherwise and had been sufficient pressure to make the face of seal 'square', (not standing at angle as Jeff's photo) and I forgot to take photos, but the overall thickness of the seal plus steel was 'as near as damn it' same as recess, so no real pressure applied? I found a Renault logo , but no part number
much thinking and as was Friday evening decided nowt lost so added thin disc between the steel & seal to apply a 'thochty' extra squeeze.
also during refitting I held drive shaft level with a support from strut opening and pushed seal into place evenly before added steel.
seems 'dry' inititially, but time will tell.
Alan
480 ES 2litre 'Celebration' ? , C30 1.8ES, SS1
480 ES 2litre 'Celebration' ? , C30 1.8ES, SS1
Re: Gear linkage / leakage
Update
Seems to have fixed the leak from teh gearbox wher eit meets teh drive shaft, I'll live with the wee dribble at the shaft, cos it looks a task and a half to swap the seal for diddly gain?
for info the 'thin' discs were the side of a two litre plastic milk bottle so overall maybe 0.6mm extra 'squeeze' not exactly 'hi-tech' but it works
Seems to have fixed the leak from teh gearbox wher eit meets teh drive shaft, I'll live with the wee dribble at the shaft, cos it looks a task and a half to swap the seal for diddly gain?
for info the 'thin' discs were the side of a two litre plastic milk bottle so overall maybe 0.6mm extra 'squeeze' not exactly 'hi-tech' but it works
Alan
480 ES 2litre 'Celebration' ? , C30 1.8ES, SS1
480 ES 2litre 'Celebration' ? , C30 1.8ES, SS1