My First 480 (and need a little help) - Alternator/Battery?

dragon · Post by **dragon** » Thu Aug 05, 2004 7:32 pm

if it's reading a constant voltage (13.7v) whilst it's connected to the good battery (and this is assuming you're basically connected as per a jumpstart situation), but then drops rapidly after you remove the leads from the good battery, then it shows the altenator is working (well this plus the fact that you say you get 13 odd volts on the altenator always) - it seems quite clear that the battery cells have died and the battery cannot be charging (although to be honest, I'd expect the voltage to be higher, as the altenator should go into overcharge trying to charge the dead cells, so I''d expect 15-16V at this point) - simple test is to take the battery out of the 480 and put it to the side, remove the S40 battery and connect to the 480, start the 480 up and meter the battery - if, whilst in the 480, the S40 battery begins to discharge, then chances are the altenator is not working, but I suspect the 480 will run fine like this. Next check then is to put the 480 battery in the S40, jumpstart the S40 from it's own battery (i.e. jumpstart from the 480) and then meter the (suspected bad) battery whilst it runs - if the voltage drops like a brick in the S40 and the S40 stalls, then this proves the battery is dead.

Murf · Post by **Murf** » Thu Aug 05, 2004 7:47 pm

yes the 440 alternator should work, it just means that it has spare current capacity that you are not using so you can get some massive spog lamps for the front!

should be a straight swap but the only way to know is to try it. if the car isnt happy then you could swap it for the spare i've got as one of my cars has AC and it might come in handy.
Â£20 is a pretty damn good price, by the way!!

how much did your alloys sting you, if you dont mind me asking?
i bought an identical set off ebay last week but i cant get a courier that will deliver that sort of weight in one parcel so i have to drive to england to get them, ho hum!
looking forward to bolting them on as they will look pretty mean with the lowered suspension and other stuff!!

Dommett · Post by **Dommett** » Thu Aug 05, 2004 8:23 pm

dragon wrote:if it's reading a constant voltage (13.7v) whilst it's connected to the good battery (and this is assuming you're basically connected as per a jumpstart situation), but then drops rapidly after you remove the leads from the good battery, then it shows the altenator is working (well this plus the fact that you say you get 13 odd volts on the altenator always) - it seems quite clear that the battery cells have died and the battery cannot be charging (although to be honest, I'd expect the voltage to be higher, as the altenator should go into overcharge trying to charge the dead cells, so I''d expect 15-16V at this point) - simple test is to take the battery out of the 480 and put it to the side, remove the S40 battery and connect to the 480, start the 480 up and meter the battery - if, whilst in the 480, the S40 battery begins to discharge, then chances are the altenator is not working, but I suspect the 480 will run fine like this. Next check then is to put the 480 battery in the S40, jumpstart the S40 from it's own battery (i.e. jumpstart from the 480) and then meter the (suspected bad) battery whilst it runs - if the voltage drops like a brick in the S40 and the S40 stalls, then this proves the battery is dead.

Thanks - I would try this, but I need to get to work tomorrow, so can't risk having breaking my working battery!!!
I'll take it to the battery center, and get them to check it (I think they can rig it up and see if it's working) and then if not buy a new one.
And just hope the alternator is ok!!

Dommett · Post by **Dommett** » Thu Aug 05, 2004 8:39 pm

Murf wrote:yes the 440 alternator should work, it just means that it has spare current capacity that you are not using so you can get some massive spog lamps for the front!

Hehe!! I rather fancy fitting a tv in the car, so this could help

Murf wrote:should be a straight swap but the only way to know is to try it. if the car isnt happy then you could swap it for the spare i've got as one of my cars has AC and it might come in handy.
Â£20 is a pretty damn good price, by the way!!

In that case, I may pop down there tomorrow and whip it off. I was gonna get the aerial motor as well (Â£15) - Anything else worth taking while I'm under the bonnet? They are crushing it tomorrow. Maybe I could take the whole a/c system!!!

Murf wrote:how much did your alloys sting you, if you dont mind me asking?
i bought an identical set off ebay last week but i cant get a courier that will deliver that sort of weight in one parcel so i have to drive to england to get them, ho hum!
looking forward to bolting them on as they will look pretty mean with the lowered suspension and other stuff!!

Err, Â£50 - they took them off for me, and I got the bolts, locking wheel nuts & keys, and a seemingly very nice set of 185/55 tyres with good tread. I thought it was a good price. and I blagged the unused car jack too (even though I have one!)

They look the same size as the originals, so shouldn't scrub or cause speedo probs, just lower profile tyres. I don't think it's been lowered, but once the wheels are on, and the car is moving, I'll get some photo's up here.

Please let me know if there is anything else I should get from under the bonnet (front end not damaged - only roof damaged.
Got a very nice 1/2 leather black 440 seats, radio unit too - shame they're no good for me! - Obviously nobody wanted bits from the old girl.

I have some other breakers nearby which I may pay a visit too - see what stuff they have!! (fingers crossed for clear indicators)

rpruen · Post by **rpruen** » Thu Aug 05, 2004 9:32 pm

Dommett wrote:As for the dash lamp - never comes on, so maybe blown bulb?

Everything else is ok so far, disconnect the wire from the spade terminal on the back of the alternator (the smallest wire) the others are bolted on. Earth the wire and switch on the ignition. If the bat light is on then the alternator is at fault. If not then the bulb or wiring is the problem.

Untill the bat lamp works the alternator will not produce enough power to charge the battery. Fix this first.

The alternator should always read the same voltage as the battery, if it's reading higher, then there is a problem between the alternator and battery. If you have the fuse, then check that, and also the wire.

Richard

Dommett · Post by **Dommett** » Fri Aug 06, 2004 5:27 pm

Okay, took the battery to the garage, and they tried charging it, but it refused to accept charge, so I know the battery is broken, but he said it's worth checking to see what damaged it in the first place rather than simply replacing it.
Could this be the Alternator or Voltage regulator causing this? or even, my local mechanic said the blown 'battery' bulb on the panel could cause the alternator to not work.

Please help!!!

In the meantime...
I know have the dashboard and instrument panel down to it's component parts (well, almost!!) to check why the battery light does not come on during ignition.
(Mainly, all the electrics work fine, like the info center etc)
I may see what else I can do behind the dash before refitting it.

It's kinda cool though - the first time I've taken a car to bits - I'm hoping it works when I put it back together again!

Dommett · Post by **Dommett** » Fri Aug 06, 2004 6:28 pm

Well, the bad news is that the battery bulb is working.
Which means I guess that the fuse or wiring may be at fault before I work out if the alternator is working.

The good news is two other bulbs had gone, so I'll replace them!

What do you guys think the next test is?

(my girlfriends none too pleased to see 'her' car in bits!!

(Full Size)

Dommett · Post by **Dommett** » Fri Aug 06, 2004 6:31 pm

Thought I'd add the photo's of the engine bay

Is this the B18EP engine?

Anybody know what the connectors are that go nowhere? should they?

Engine Bay
Connector?
Red & Yellow?

robkendall · Post by **robkendall** » Fri Aug 06, 2004 6:44 pm

firstly, the red and yellow look like they are running through the dipstick...i would amend this asap.
secondly, is that connecotr hidden away under the front, near the vin plate? if so, i have one and thats just hanging there too.
it looks like the b18ep....the little ally plate just near the oil filter should say......i thought mine should have been a b18fp, and had to double check.....the plate does say b18ep though....someone said this is 106bhp high torque, non cat....but mine has a cat! typical volvo standardisation then!

cheers dude
glad to see youre having fun!
rob

Murf · Post by **Murf** » Fri Aug 06, 2004 6:47 pm

well, theres the answer to your dash light and possibly the charging problems!

the red wire should be connected to the terminal on the alternator shown in my photo.
the yellow wire is for the oil pressure gauge extra and is used if your car has the extra gauges under the radio. does your oil pressure gauge read full all the time and never change?? this is why!

Murf · Post by **Murf** » Fri Aug 06, 2004 6:49 pm

oh, and the square black connector has been unused on every 480 ive ever seen, i think it must be a test point for some volovo diagnostic equipment that us mere mortals dont have access to!!

Murf · Post by **Murf** » Fri Aug 06, 2004 6:52 pm

also, do you have a picture showing the end of the alt with all the connections? it doesnt look like you have a ground wire coming from it either. is there just the big phat red wiring coming off it at the moment??

Dommett · Post by **Dommett** » Fri Aug 06, 2004 9:13 pm

Well, I guess I spent time taking the dash to bits for nothing then?! Oh well, it was fun

I can't quite work out the picture completely.
But I think, the three brown/blue wires are correct.
Is the black wire with blue connector your earthing? - where does that connect to? (without sounding too stupid)
I do have a metal flat 'rope' attached to the engine, going to the bodywork.
The red wire - that seems to be connected to somewhere different - does that connect to the same place as the big red wire? (presumably going to the battery?)
(I used the big red wire terminal, and the 'brown wire' terminals to measure the voltage)

And the yellow wire - YES - my oil gauge shows full pressure when the engine is on and never moves.
So where does this go? you have 2 orange cables there? what do they connect to? I'll take some detailed piccies tomorrow morning before going round the scrapyards. I think mine is 1xorange and 1xyellow - are they the same as your two orange do you think?
I'll take the Haynes to bed with me, and see if I understand any better!!

I may as well buy a battery while I'm there if it looks like it maybe the cause of my problems and I could be running again this weekend!!!

Oh I really do hope so!!!

THANKYOU VERY VERY MUCH

BTW MURF: How much did you pay for the alloys off ebay out of interest?.
I've just cleaned mine up, came up perfect, and the tyres are fairly new with no damage. I'm chuffed.
And the guy was no nice - even giving me a full set of locking wheel nuts + keys + red caps for them.

Dommett · Post by **Dommett** » Fri Aug 06, 2004 9:23 pm

robkendall wrote:firstly, the red and yellow look like they are running through the dipstick...i would amend this asap.

Don't worry - I just poked it through the loop to take the picture as they kept springing everywhere.

That said - probably not best they are left dangling either. Wonder if that caused a shortage and broke the battery?

Cheers. - yes having fun - next to me I have a circuit board, and a series of bulbs. Only one step from filling the garage with spare parts!!

robkendall · Post by **robkendall** » Fri Aug 06, 2004 10:53 pm

on your original pic......
from what murf has said....i think im right in saying this.......
the red arrow....the wire plugs into this socket on the top of the alternator.
the green arrow....there is a sensor not shown in yur pic....to the left hand side of the oil filter....this is the oil pressure sensor.
mines wired up, just doesnt work, so if you do wire it up and the gauge still hits 70 psi....dont worry, it may just be the sensor!

rgrds
rob

Murf · Post by **Murf** » Fri Aug 06, 2004 11:08 pm

sorry, i took the picture with the camera on my mobile so the picture sucks!
the oil pressure sensor on my car has one yellow and one orange wire on it.
when you get a pressure sensor (as opposed to a pressure switch) from the scrappy cut off the wiring plug as you will need to solder the new plug onto the cars wiring using the (unused) yellow wire and the single wire currently being used for the pressure switch!
to remove the oil sensor from a scrap car you will need (if memory serves correct) a big allen key or torx (cant remember which) or use a set of pipe grips and carefully turn the whole thing till the allen bolt loosens and then unscrew it with your fingers once the seal has "cracked".
the new sensor is a kind of Y shape with one of the top "arms" missing and the allen bolt goes through the middle of the sensor. you will see what i mean when you see one.

to remove your existing pressure switch you will need a deep socket, cant remember what size, or if your a tightass like me just cut off the plastic surround and fit a normal socket on to it!

chris1roll · Post by **chris1roll** » Fri Aug 06, 2004 11:10 pm

a ring spanner will just about do it, nth of a turn at a time!

Murf · Post by **Murf** » Fri Aug 06, 2004 11:11 pm

rob is dead on with where the red wire goes andthe fact that yur oil pressure switch is hidden under the black pipe beside the filter in your picture!

if you have an earth strap going to the body then thats fine but i think the brown wire (if you have one) is the earth for the instrument cluster and if thats not grounded then i dont think they will work

nearly there dude, keep going!!

Dommett · Post by **Dommett** » Fri Aug 06, 2004 11:39 pm

I can't wait for it to get light outside now

damn nights!!

As for the oil pressure.
I am guessing then, that the original engine has an oil sensor on it, and the yellow wire would have been connected up to it, but the new engine only had a switch, so the gauge just shows "on" (full) and the second wire is just floating around. So I need a sensor to hook it back up.
Think I got that.

Murf · Post by **Murf** » Fri Aug 06, 2004 11:47 pm

yep, thats it!
the oil pressure sensor is much bigger than the switch so you should be able to recognise it no problems, just look at the photo of mine above!

my wheels stung me Â£70 with tires, i was surprised to be the only bidder but the awkward cow wont post them and now i have to drive 400 mile round trip to pick em up!!!

that reminds me, vandegraaf, do you fancy another road trip next thurs or fri??

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll? ... RK:MEWA:IT

Volvo 480 Club Europe

My First 480 (and need a little help) - Alternator/Battery?

Re: Battery and Alternator results