Fuel pump dead?

[Ade]

Hi all,

For the first time since I've had my turbo (from 60k, now 125k) it has failed to start. The car was running fine having just driven from Northampton to Coventry. I pulled in for fuel and then lo and behold, came back out of the petrol station and the bugger wouldn't start. It's cranking strong and (with very limited tools) I managed to ascertain that I have spark at the king lead (dizzy, rotor, leads and plugs have all done less than 10k).

Removed fuel return from regulator and cranked, nothing. Bone dry. Checked relays under fuse box (injection system, b12 clicks when ignition is on and fuel pump, b2, clicks when cranking. Fuses ok.

Haven't been able to access the fuel pump and check its function via direct DC power or whether there is power to it yet but I'm strongly suspecting a dead pump. Would this seem reasonable?? It seems a logical conclusion with the information obtained thus far and as far as I know it is the cars original item. 125k enough to kill it?

It's weird that its happened after putting fuel in (£30 from the point of my range reckoning about 40 miles). Could this be coincidence? Has to be I guess. And yes, I did put petrol in, not diesel before anyone says anything!

Any thoughts greatly appreciated as always, I'm getting it recovered tomorrow and so will post an update once I've played with it some more with better tools and light!

[Ade]

Also, what are my options for a replacement? Any ideas?

Thanks.

[glasgowjim]

When the fuel pump goes it gives no warning it just dies. Had that happen in my car and it had only 75k on it easiest way to check is to listen for it priming if it is dead there will be no noise. I would agree from what you said its the fuel pump. I just might have a spare somewhere but I cant be sure will check but it might be late in the week before I can get back to you .

[WhiteWolf]

I had a weird time once when my turbo wouldn't start.. I can never hear mine priming inside.. I can hear a noise from the engine bay which I think is the brakes pressuring up ?
Anyway what worked for me and you will be able to see if the pump works as well is take the fuel pump relay out and bridge 2 of the contacts on the plug.. I can't remember what contacts are which but there isn't many combinations.. Do this with ignition on as well.
I did it with a bit of wire and the pump kicked in.. Took the wire out and put the relay in and thankfully it started..
I hope it's as simple as that..

[Ade]

Update time......

So I had the car recovered today and started to have a more detailed poke around. I removed the fuel pump and tested it with a direct feed from a battery and it worked, so not the pump. I tested the pump's earth which checked out fine and then checked for voltage at the pump's wiring connector (whilst cranking) and got nothing. Well, I say nothing, I got a reading of less than 1 volt whilst cranking and then back to zero with no starter.

Given that it seemed I had a problem on the power supply circuit for the pump (as mentioned, relays function correctly, haven't yet checked for voltage on the power supply side of the relays, getting there next) I decided to try running the pump from a battery and trying to start the engine. I powered up the pump, cracked the fitting on the fuel rail to check for good fuel pressure (which there most certainly was) and cranked away....... Nothing, absolutely bugger all, not even a cough or splutter.

So having ascertained that I had no power to the pump, powering up the fuel pump directly, I assumed that it should start but no luck

My attention turned briefly back to the ignition system. I had already ascertained a spark was present at the king lead and so decided to rule out the rest of the system. I removed a plug and got a good spark so I put it back in and put some petrol in a spray bottle (whose nozzle fit nicely into the idle valve fitting on the manifold) in order to carburate the engine in a rudimentary way. Having given a good spray, it started and by finding a good 'rate of squeeze' with the bottle, got it running lovely. Hence I'm definitely looking at a fuelling issue. I had the pump 'hotwired' during this and yet as soon as I stopped squeezing the bottle, it died. So I have petrol under pressure as far as the fuel rail (still not certain about the lack of power at the pump harness but the hot wiring negates this anyway), I have a perfectly functional ignition system so what the hell is going on? It would seem as though the Injectors are not firing. Very weird.
I'm going to do some more investigation this week (as best I can around work) but I'm getting the feeling that this might be a bit of an obscure problem
Am I missing something obvious? My next step will be to do some more electrical testing around the relays and wiring but I'm not getting a very hopeful gut feeling. Could this be some dreaded fault with the Jetronic ECU?

And finally, I still can't escape the apparent coincidence if this occurring right after filling up with fuel. It's definitely petrol, I checked my receipt and also when had the pump out earlier, the contents of the tank definitely appeared and smelled correct. Really frustrating........

[glasgowjim]

water in the petrol ?

check with the petrol station ?

could it be the wiring to the actual injectors ?

can supply a replacement injector rail if needed.

just a thought if its a 26 fuse fusebox then there are 2 fuses mounted on the back of the two separate relays and one does the fuel.

[Ade]

I've checked the fuses that are mounted in the relay holders. They're fine. I'm thinking I might take the rail out, Hotwire the pump again and crank it to see whether the injectors are actually firing. Could do with a scope really to back probe the injector harness and see if I'm getting pulses to the injectors....... I don't suppose my multimeter will have a sufficient sample rate to pick up something like that.

What consequence do you think water in the petrol would have? I'm not sure about this though, in the hours I was stranded on the forecourt, no one else seemed to have a problem.

My battery wasn't as strong as it could have been whilst checking out the fuel pump voltage so will try again tonight once the battery is fully charged, although this still doesn't explain the non start with the pump hotwired.

I'll do some more multimeter readings on various bits once I have a strong battery and post up my results.

[Ade]

Sorted

Fuel pump relay was working but had a burnt out leg inside hence not letting any power to the fuel pump or injectors. The injectors also take power from this relay.

[glasgowjim]

Ade can you give me the reference number on the relay and I can send down a couple of spares for the postage ( usually about £2.80 I reckon) if you want.

regards jim