Not starting at all :(

[robwizard]

I'm posting these questions as a continuation of the thread entitled "Space wedge" as I have been told that that is supposed to be more of a diary than questions etc which is cool.

So it still won't start. It spins up but just won't start. Changed the distributor cap and rotor arm as they were a bit shagged. It started to spark, awesome. Then nothing Realized that the fuel pump wasn't working properly so managed to follow the instructions on here to bypass the relay and now the pump works! Nothing still though.. no start Read that the filters can get knackered so fitted a new one today, the union broke slightly and it has a tiny leak but at least I know that the pump works as it's dripping a little bit if fuel out haha. Still won't start though

Next step is gonna be taking the injector rail or fuel line out in the engine bay and see if the fuel is even getting that far.. can anyone advise me as where this is located? And also any other things to try? Starting to lose the will with this car..

Cheers

[Slash01]

The fuel rail is above the inlet, between the curve in the manifold. You'll probably have to take the top half of the intake manifold off the get access to it.
If you remove it and crank the engine but no fuel comes out don't just assume a blockage. Inspect the crank sensor. If this is faulty the ECU doesn't know when piston 1 is at TDC and therefore doesn't know when to fire the injectors.
I seem to remember you saying that someone previously has had a 'go' at the electrics. Try to check the wires for damage as well.

Try reading the fault codes. Search the forum for how to.
A tip is to right down all the codes then delete them from the memory. Try to start the car a few times, then collect the codes again. Any that come back are to do with the failure to start.
Any other codes from the first collection are either old codes or are from the last time the car was run and would need to be checked for reoccurrence when you finally get it running.

[robwizard]

Ok so fault codes checked! Came up with 3-4-3, which according to the guide is "Main relay coil: no voltage " So I'm not really sure were to go from here. Does that mean ignition coil? I have searched the forum for the code but it just brings up the list of fault codes as the result. If anyone can advise me from here it would be greatly appreciated! I'm gonna go out now and see if I can figure anything more out but as anyone who has been reading any of my posts will know I'm a fairly useless mechanic haha

Cheers

[Slash01]

to me that seems like the coil inside the main relay for the fuel pump has no voltage. If there's no voltage to the coil the relay wont switch and wont activate the fuel pump.
You stated previous that you bypassed the relay to get the fuel pump to work. This would be triggering the fault code, therefore not revealing the reason she/he, both? wont start. If the relay was knackered in the first place try replacing it, see if it makes a difference.

[robwizard]

Yeah I bypassed the relay and got the pump whirring away but still no start. I also tried taking the relay from the heater fan (I think) which had the same values as the relay for the fuel pump and plugging that in, it gave the same fault code and still wouldn't start But I will look for a new relay and get one ordered. Could it be that if it isn't getting voltage then the fuse might have gone? Or a loose connection? And if so any hints as to where to look?

I really appreciate the help with this mate!

Cheers

[Slash01]

always best to check the fuse, should be number 12.
If it's not it could be a loose connection or a damaged wire.

[robwizard]

Fuse is good. Checked the fuel lines in the bay and nothings coming out. Took the pump slightly out, removed the lines and switched it on. Pissed petrol everywhere haha. So somewhere along the lines fuel isn't getting to the engine. The car hadn't been driven for a couple of months before I got it so might be that I loosened a load of crap and the lines are blocked? I dunno.. gonna whip them off tomorrow if I get a chance and clean them out anyway. Sigh.. another Sunday gone.

Cheers

[doingitsideways]

You have changed the filter, right??

Steve

[robwizard]

Yeah I put a new filter on. One of the unions kind of broke a little so there is a pinhole leak on the way into the filter.. Fuel is definitely getting to that point though as it leaks out slightly haha. I'm gonna take the whole line, filter included, off and clean everything and put it all back together in hope that it is something as simple as a blockage.. need to find someplace to buy a new fuel pump relay from as well.

Cheers

[Alan 480]

three things reqd for it to run:-
1 Fuel check fuel peeing out at the connection/joint above drivers side wheel arch when you split that connector and spin starter (cannot here so cant take a photo) don't smoke and catch the fuel in a tin!:-)
2 Spark take the lead from the coil DIRECT to a spark plug set on the block and see if it gives a steady stream. if not possibly the crankshaft pick up or a list of other things, but start simple
3 air have a look at the 'bypss valve' front of engine block, it is easy to remove and check it opens & closes when ign turned on/off, or 'just' hold the butterfly open a tiny bit

[robwizard]

Ok so a while has passed and I'm still not any closer to getting this car on the road. I have replaced all the fuel lines, unions and filter etc and can confirm then when I bypass the fuel pump relay that fuel now enters the engine bay! I tried to start it by bypassing the relay and starting as normal and nothing happened. I figured the relay may have more going on than just pumping fuel so got a spare from Glasgowjim which arrived about half an hour ago. I pranced outside with a big grin thinking to myself "nothing can possibly go wrong now, everything will be amazing and the car will work!" my optimism was short lived.. Even with the new relay in when I put the key to stage 2 I still can't hear the pump prime I'm going to now go and work on a couple of the other things the guy above me suggested but surely with the new relay in place I should now be able to hear the pump prime?

Cheers

[robwizard]

Also in an additional update I have removed and cleaned and now replaced the crank sensor. Went to start it and it gave an encouraging grunt almost like an ignition sound but still failed to start Also I have noticed my new relay clicks merrily away which the old one didn't? Don't know if this is good or bad? Good I guess.. though maybe it should only click once...

Cheers

[glasgowjim]

relays should not click away all the time.

put the old one back in and listen for click sounds

try putting a multimeter across the relay power feed and see if there is an intermittent supply.

Let me know how you get on and I will send you another replacement (one out a working car not from my store of relays in the mancave.

[robwizard]

I will check tomorrow for clicking.. at the moment I'm too preoccupied by the fact that it started!!

Cleaning that valve at the front of the block seems to have finally got it working!! Still loads of other jobs to do on it.. need a whole new interior and figure out why the passenger air vent is like a waterfall when it rains haha. But it starts!!!!

Thanks everyone for the help and Jim for the parts!!


Cheers

[doingitsideways]

Congratulations!!

Not sure why the idle valve would stop it from starting like!

They just allow air flow at closed throttle to regulate the idle speed, should still start with it disconnected though!

Steve

[robwizard]

Who knows haha? I did kind of think that to be honest.. but I was working along the lines of "earth strap fixed-check engine-no start. Dizzy cap-check engine-no start.... last but not least Idle control valve-check engine-START!" Maybe it was just complete coincidence.. or a multitude of problems that all amounted to not starting.. I dunno. I'm a little concerned that the problem is something completely unrelated and is going to happen again at a really inconvenient time. Just gonna be driving round the block for a few weeks making sure

Cheers

[robwizard]

On a side note as I was replacing the fuel line I found that I couldn't separate the forward line from the return line. So I just cut both ends of the forward line and have tied my new line onto both the old ones with thick cable ties if that makes sense? It seems pretty sturdy and I couldn't get the old ones to separate from one another so this seems a decent enough solution?

Cheers

[glasgowjim]

what is the year of manufacture and model?

check the connections to alternator are tight.

check the megafuse for continuity

[robwizard]

Alternator seems fine, I will maybe replace it soon when I give it a full service. I will also check the megafuse.. where is this located? It's a 1989/90 1.7 ES automatic.

Cheers

[glasgowjim]

in that case you wont have one